My guest today is Steve Fredlund who’s raised over 3 million in funds over 12 years for humanitarian work.
What specifically made you want to jump into humanitarian work and how did you go about raising that kind of capital?
Well, it started with AIDS in Sub-Saharan Africa. A few years ago, I’d give a little bit of money, but I never really got involved. And finally, I just challenged myself. So, I actually went to a conference in 2007 where I just wanted to find out more about this pandemic, this epidemic, what was going on there, and how we could help.
And there were three of us, two other gentlemen from my hometown, a small rural town. We wanted to do something, but we didn’t know what to do. So, we started meeting together and said, how can we respond to global poverty? What is our community’s response?
At the time, our community was very divisive, politically, and religiously, schools, there was just a lot of division. And so we decided we wanted to try to kill two birds with one stone.
One is how can we unite the people of East Central Minnesota and how can we respond to global poverty. We just strategized about that for about a year or so. We started interviewing potential partners and ultimately landed on something we called our response. It was a 12-year project. But we didn’t go in knowing we were going to work in Rwanda. We worked with this one area of Northern Rwanda, up in the mountains.
It took four trips over. I did this as a volunteer. Everybody was a volunteer. And how do we raise 3 million? Vision. I mean there were some donors from outside of that, but really this was a community response, and people are just blown away. We gathered the 70 people that we could, that were interested. My goal was to raise a million dollars in 10 years.
People were like, you can’t do that. You can’t put goals out there that are unrealistic. But, long story short, we raised a bunch of money. People captured the vision of it. They liked both the community side of it and then they liked the impact that we’re having over there.
Is the project in Rwanda still continuing?
It was a project. I led it from 2007 really. We are done just last year. I’m in my fifties now and to do another 10-15-year project, I don’t know if I have the energy to do that on the side anymore. I’d love to support it. I’d love to get behind it, but no leader emerged out of that. So we just closed it.
And no apologies for that. It’s okay that things start and end. We defined it as a project. By the year 2022, we’re going to have this big celebration that we helped transform this community of Kivuruga, Rwanda. The whole vision was this end day that we could celebrate the self-sustainability of this area rather than this ongoing thing. So, mission accomplished. It was a great run. I learned a lot myself, learned a lot about leadership, and I think we had a big impact here and there.
How time-consuming is it to run a non-profit?
I’m not going to lie, it was a lot. And there are seasons of it. When you’re just getting started, that’s a season of figuring things out. I was spending probably 20 hours a week doing that at least. And then there’d be times where it’s maybe five, 10 hours and times when it’d be 30 or 40 hours on the side. But it was a labor of love.
I’m one of these people who’s okay working a lot. I’m okay with high capacity as long as it’s things that I love doing. And then, as you start building people around you and you start building this momentum, that’s where it just gives you so much life.
And then taking trips over there. I took four trips over there, two years apart. And as soon as you’re back from one, you’re planning the next. Because taking a group of 10 to 12 people to Sub-Saharan Africa is not something you plan on a weekend. It takes a lot of work. But it was great. A lot of work, but it was amazing.
What transformation did you see in the community you were helping? And how did you allocate the money you raised?
We had a partner on the ground over there. We knew we were going to partner with somebody over there that had a vision for what they wanted to do.
And so we interviewed a number of different NGOs and non-profits that were doing work over there to figure out what we wanted. And we knew we wanted community transformation. There’s a lot of great things you can do in Sub-Saharan Africa. You can focus on clean water, disease prevention, microfinancing, female empowerment, etc.
What we wanted was more of a holistic community model where they owned the transformation. So as far as allocating the funds, they had a program, they had a structure, they had a strategy. And so our funding that came in went into their strategy, and then they carried that out step by step.
So for example, when we first visited in 2009, there was a maternity center. I say maternity center, but there’s one room dedicated for women having children, terrible conditions, shared waiting room with people with tuberculosis, malaria, and what not. And I kept saying, what can we do to rectify this?
It became really personal because I have a personal story of my twins being born and the first one was fine. With the second we had an emergency situation. If we didn’t have eight doctors and nurses rushing in there, my son dies, and my wife dies. My daughter’s never born.
So how can we help change this? I had to be super patient because there are all these other priorities in this community transformation model. First, we need clean water and food security and soil erosion issues and all of these things that were actually bigger issues than maternity centers. So as far as allocating funds, it was really up to that program to do that.
How has the Rwandan community developed as a whole aside from your commitment in the last 12 years?
The beauty of going back there every two years was to see the impact.
First of all, you see it in the people, in their faces. There’s so much AIDS and so much other diseases, a lot of it just from lack of clean water. We were part of opening up some new water sources like springs and that sort of thing, which if you’ve never seen a new water source open in Africa, go to YouTube, and look it up. It’s unbelievable. But by the time we were done, there were actually pipelines going through the mountains. Crazy to get water to all of these people. And that’s the most obvious example. People thought it was a miracle because now they only had to walk 20 minutes down the mountain to get clean water and then bring it back up.
So we saw the transformation physically. And what I just love is that they really owned it. There was a time when a school was being built and people weren’t showing up to help with the building and we just shut it down. We weren’t like, okay, we’re Westerners coming over to build this for you. You guys have to own this. That’s the best part about this – at the end of it, now they own it. They just know it’s theirs. They built it. It’s their community. Rather than, okay, what’s next? What else are you guys going to give us? And so we could actually leave there knowing that they’re in great shape set up for future generations.
What are the Big Five when speaking about Africa?
Let me make sure I remember. So, lion, leopard, Cape buffalo, hippo, and black rhino. And they are actually defined a little bit differently in different areas or whatever, but where we are, those are considered the big five animals.
And so you’re referencing safari. At the end of each of the four trips, we’d go on a safari for two or three days, and this is something that I really resisted at first because we were doing humanitarian work. This is not a vacation. I don’t want to do this. But the people that we’re working with said, you need to do this for a number of reasons.
First of all, you’re going to need two or three days to decompress from the things that you saw. I mean, we saw people die of AIDS. We saw really hard things, like 18-month-old babies that weighed eight pounds. So part of it is that to be able to decompress from what you just saw before you transition back into Americanness if you will.
And then part of it is the team building that happens. When you’re doing humanitarian work, you’re so focused on them and trying to figure things out and understand things. You don’t really get a chance to do team building. Safaris give you a chance to do that, a chance to support the local economy. And plus, it’s Africa and for most people, it’s a once-in-a-lifetime trip. Go enjoy it. So I was talked into doing the safari. At the end of each trip, we’d tack on two or three days and they were all different experiences for sure, but one of those was on the Serengeti and looking for the big five and I mean, I got story after story with that.
I actually did a Ted talk about having the right people in your Jeep. This idea of just surrounding yourself with the right people in life. But it’s based on our story of looking for the Black Rhino. So we had seen four of the Big Five. We just hadn’t seen the Black Rhino, and they’re very rare to find. And then we got a call came where the radio that maybe somebody possibly saw a black rhino in a bush. So, we’re like, let’s just go, let’s go. And it was just so intense. And then long story short, a black rhino comes out with a baby. Black rhino babies are so rare. It was one of those moments that I only shared with three other people that were in the jeep. That shared moment was so powerful.
How safe is Africa for people who want to go on vacation or do humanitarian work?
You have to take away your European American ideals of what things are going to look like. Planes will be late, things will happen. There will be experiences that you don’t expect. I try to tell those to people all the time.
So things happen. But from a safety perspective, Rwanda’s like the safest part of East Africa right now which is ironic because they went through the genocide in 1994. Hotel Rwanda. A lot of people know that, but right now they’re like the poster child for reconciliation, and for safety. So we felt safe all the time.
And of course, it depends on where you’re going. When we were doing the humanitarian stuff, we had our group that brought us to places. You’re just living life with the people there.
And, you know, things could have happened. But, nothing did at all. It was much more dangerous to be chased by elephants than to do the humanitarian work. I’ll tell you that much.
But if you’re going to go vacation there, it’s safe. It’d be so terrible for business if they had something happen. So they’re super safe. And I tell people, I know right where I want to go on vacation to Rwanda, maybe do humanitarian stuff, but even just go on vacation because Ruzizi Tented Lodge in Akagera National Park, Eastern Rwanda, was like my favorite place on earth and it felt safe.
I never felt like there was any issue at all. But things happened in Africa. Like when we had a connecting flight through Nairobi, Kenya, and their airport burned down basically. We ended up stuck in Kenya for two days without a translator. And it was terrible. We weren’t allowed to stay at the airport. I could tell you all sorts of stories there. So things happen.
As far as safaris go, we’ve done all kinds of different safari. You’ve got the standard traditional safari to see the lions, the elephants, the giraffes, and the hippos. But we also went up to Northern Rwanda, up to Volcanoes National Park, and we spent an hour with mountain gorillas. We hung out with them for an hour in their natural habitat.
What is the difference between a mountain gorilla and a normal gorilla?
Silverback gorillas are like the older monutain gorillas. They’re big, and they can snap trees like this. And they don’t hurt you at all. They bring enough groups up there. I was like the tallest male. And they said there’s a chance they one might come up to you and tap you on the head and what they mean, they just want you to get down. I was like, yes, please. I want that to happen. But I don’t. Are they going to crush my head or are they going to tap my head? They’re completely capable of crushing you, but it’s very, very rare anything like that happens at all.
They know what distance to keep and they know their general path. They know these families and they have all names for all of them.
You’ve served on over six nonprofit boards in 20 years, you ran one yourself. How do you manage non-profits?
I think a couple things to keep in mind. One is, you have to run it like a business in some regards. You have to do well financially. If you wanna do good in the world, you need to be able to operationalize and have things run effectively. Because so many of the non-profits that I’m involved with, including some of the boards that I was on don’t really get that because we think of non-profits like, it’s going to be such a fun work environment and we’re going to make a difference in the world. And you, and they do. But it’s limited by how serious they take the business side of it. And so they tend to have a lot of overage and costs. They tend to not really be creative in driving revenue or fundraising or whatever their model is, and so their impact is limited.
I think there’s an opportunity there for a lot of non-profits to really look at it and say, it’s okay to be running like a business. Because business isn’t bad. Business is just good practice. We want to increase our revenue, reduce our expenses, so we can maximize our impact. It’s not that complicated.
And the second thing is, when you’re running a non-profit (and this is actually why I believe that most of the really good corporate leaders are going to come out of the non-profit sector in the future), you don’t have the same levers that you have in the corporate world. You don’t have the lever of a paycheck, a bonus, benefits that you can hold over somebody’s head. What you lead with this vision. People give money. People volunteer their time with vision. So in a non-profit, you might have a few paid staff, but most of your workforce is volunteer or people that are getting paid very, very little. And most of your stakeholders are in the community, and most of your money comes from donations. When you’re a non-profit leader, you learn how to lead with vision and create ownership and movement and momentum and engage people very differently than you have to do in the corporate world.
I love non-profits. They have such an opportunity to change the world, but a lot of them don’t have real visionary leadership. They don’t have a clear and compelling vision that’s consistently communicated outwardly, and they don’t really have the good infrastructure that’s going to allow them to have as much impact as they’re capable of.
Of the many non-profits you’ve been a part of, which one had the most clear and concise vision?
I’ll pick the Africa one just because that was the one I started. But I would say they all had a clear vision statement. But that’s different than a clear, compelling, consistently communicated vision that people can reproduce.
For example, when I worked for the school in Africa I said, tell me what your vision is. So they go and find this printed sheet of paper and 75 words. Well, the words are beautiful, right? The vision is beautiful, but nobody knew what it was. The board doesn’t know what it is. The leaders don’t know it. Certainly the students didn’t know what it was. Well, this is not a vision in terms of a vision that’s alive and compelling and creates ownership and engagement.
But I think the Rwanda one really just crushed it right to unite East Central Minnesota to respond to global poverty, disease and suffering. The party thing is what people locked. By the year 2022, we are going to have a party to celebrate the self-sustainability of Kivuruga, Rwanda. That gets people fired up. I want to be a part of that party. I want to be a part of that movement. I want to celebrate, I want to feel like I had something to do with it.
And then you start breaking it down for people. Here’s what this looks like for this couple year period, for this trip… And people grabbed hold of it.
Are there specific minimum requirements for starting a non-profit?
I’m in the US and I know you’re over in Europe, so there might be different things there, but it’s very easy to start a non-profit. It doesn’t cost that much. If you just want to start one and get going, get that 501.
I think that’s where most non-profits lose their way is there’s just a lack of clarity. They really don’t have a plan. It’s like a business where you need to develop a business plan. You need to really figure out who your target market is, who you are actually trying to reach. You can’t save everybody. Just like in business, not everybody can be your target market. Where’s the money going to come from? What are the programs that are out there who’s already doing this? You can say it’s not competitive in the non-profit space, but it is. There are competitors. If there’s somebody already doing that, that’s a competitor to your impact. So you can decide if it makes sense to still do this. Should I partner with them? Should we collaborate in some way? What does this look like?
You can’t just start something. You can’t just say, hey, we’re doing work in Africa, everybody give me your time and money.
So, have a plan. Get that core group of people that are committed to it. Be honest with yourself. Let other people speak into it. So it’s easy to start. It’s hard to actually create the ownership and the engagement.
Do you have to obtain funding before you start a non-profit?
You’ve got to be able to secure the fund or you could just be a pass through. We did both. We had an on the ground organization that was doing the work. We could actually have people direct funds to them specifically or the work that we’re doing in Rwanda, or they could give them to us.
How difficult is it to get funding for a non-profit?
Part of what our model was to unite the people of East Central Minnesota. So, we’d have an event. People would give a dollar. That was super valuable to me. Not just because of the financial impact, but because of the ownership and the engagement. Cause that was so critical to what we were trying to do in terms of uniting people.
The biggest donation we ever got was $5,000. So then you bring up government funding. And there is government funding available for a lot of stuff, especially in the non-profit space, especially in the US today. But the funding wasn’t available to get money to go do work in Africa. The US federal government is giving money to non-profits to impact their local communities. So we honestly didn’t pursue that a lot. Once we started steamrolling on the donations that we were getting, we’re like, let’s just double down on getting people here to continue to donate money and build that ownership.
But money, money is out there and people don’t realize that. I work with non-profits now as a business coach/consultant. I’m telling people all the time, there’s money out there. There’s even money for having me come in and help you do some board training or to get your board functioning more effectively. It just takes a little bit of work.
How crucial is having a board as a non-profit?
I think it’s huge. It’s required now. You could have a sort of an on paper board that doesn’t really meet. But I think having a good, diverse, strong board is absolutely critical if you’re really serious about wanting to have a lot of impact. And that board needs to be people that are serious about it. What happens is, a lot of times we just take the people that are most involved in the organization, like our key volunteers, and we make them board members. And I just want to caution you that those aren’t necessarily the right board members. People that are empaths, that are passionate, that are compassionate, that want to serve in the area that you want, those might not be the same people that should be thinking about strategy and making sure that, there’s policies created and there’s risk protection and there’s joint collaborative ventures that are going on. They’re both different skill sets. They both contribute to the organization, but they’re not often found in the same person. You’ve got to think through who are the right people and put them on the right seats in the bus.
How can you find the best board members for a non-profit?
Depending on what you’re trying to do, if you’re local, if you’re trying to find people that are involved locally, that’s one thing. If you’re looking for things nationally, there are some organizations out there I want people to be careful though. There are some scam things out there that are saying, you give me a bunch of money, we’ll find you board members. So you want to be careful. I think it’s mostly going to happen through networking. So if you’re looking for board members, start with clearly defining what you’re looking for in a board member. What kind of a board do you want? Is this a working board? Is a strategic board? And then what are people’s roles in the board? What’s our expectations of them? And then what are the skillsets that we need across the entire board?
Because you’re not going to find that all in one person. So you’re like, okay, we want somebody that’s strong in finance, somebody that’s strong in strategy, somebody that’s strong in marketing, somebody that’s strong in whatever those things are.
We know more people than we realize, but the people that we know, know more people than we realize. And so, reach out to your network and say, I’m looking for board members in these areas, who do you know? And you’re going to start getting people that come in.
What is the focus of your business now?
There were times in my career where I was so happy and times were so miserable, and it wasn’t always related to the job I had. So I started trying to figure out what causes happiness and unhappiness. About four years ago, I started my own business working on coaching, consulting, specifically for micro businesses, the small businesses, the mom and pop shops, the entrepreneurs. So part of what I do is really continuing this conversation about what drives happiness in that, doing some keynote speaking on happiness. So those are the two areas that I’m really focused on.
How did you come to realize that you want to help people be happier in their work?
Part of it become of a very personal journey to me. I couldn’t understand why 15 years ago,a middle class white American with a great marriage and a great relationship with three kids, just promoted a Fortune 500 company, I was an employee of the year … and I was miserable. It made no sense. And I didn’t have clinical depression or some of those things that are real issues. It was more I’m just not happy. Why am I not laughing? Why am I not having fun when my life is on paper amazing. What made it even worse is I felt super guilty because I wasn’t happy. What right do I have to not be happy? I check every box that I should be happy and I’m not happy.
I really struggled there trying to figure out what is going on. And then once I got some insights, I want to share it with the world. As I shared my story with people, people are like, man, that is my story. The fact that it resonated with so many people made me want to share that story more and started to figure it out more and more. So I think that steamrolled into this piece. I focus on small businesses for my coaching consulting, but then this happiness thing is kind of a broader message.
But I think what happens is when you are running a non-profit or when you are owning your own small business, your business and life are so integrated that it challenged me to talk about business effectiveness. But we also have to talk about leadership happiness and how we can find that holy grail for small business owners where they get it all. How can I actually run a small business where I’m happy and I’m successful? What are some of the insights? How can I get there? Because it’s not one or the other. When you own a small business, there’s no such thing as work-life balance. It’s all jumbled together.
What is default driven leadership and how does it relate to entrepreneurship?
One of the things that I found as far as a key driver of happiness, it’s really clarity and intentionality. Because what happens is we get misaligned when we’re not clear or we’re not intentional about our decisions, we end up very misaligned between who we are at our core and what our life actually looks like. And it’s that misalignment that drives unhappiness.
And so I try to encourage people, first of all, you have to get clear on who you are, what you want, where you want to go, all of these things. But then you have to be intentional in your decision making, in your problem solving, in your strategy development, whatever that is. And so I encourage people, quit living life by default. Quit leading by default.
So defaults is one. Another way that we make casual decisions is doing what we should do. We should on ourselves. And this is sort of my story, like, well you’re good at math. You should go to college. Oh, you’re good at college, you should become an actuary. And then we also make decisions because we think other people expect us to do those things.
The idea of default driven leadership is really this broader idea of we make so many decisions casually. We’re not intentional about saying, how does this line up with who I am, where I want to go, how I want to get there, who I want to get there with. We don’t. We’re not intentional. And so when this misalignment forms, we wake up one day, we’re unhappy. We’re not even really living our life. Even if it is a good life, it’s not our life. And I think the source of that comes from the, the accumulation of making decisions that are not intentional.
How prevalent is default driven leadership today with Fortune 500 companies?
I think it’s a huge issue. I was in a lot of analytical roles, so maybe it was more there than other roles. But so many people are unhappy in their jobs. Now personality might dictate, they just suck it up and stick it out and they’d be miserable for another 15 years so they can retire.
But it’s very prevalent. And the problem is a lot of these folks that are there are just beaten down to the point where they say, what’s the point of even fighting back, I’m just punching the clock here. And then the first chance they have to leave, they do it. So, we wonder why our retention rates are so low, and we wonder why productivity is so low. These folks are doing generally just enough to keep their job just enough to get a decent review, to get their bonus, whatever it is. But they’re not engaged. They’re not owning it. They’re not driving things forward, they’re just going through the motions and it’s incredibly sad on a personal perspective too. But they’re not going to do anything about it. And then there’s people that are going to do something about it and they go start their own businesses and we wonder why so many people are leaving. So it is a big issue.
What can you do if you are not happy at your job?
Talk to your manager. Just say, here’s the deal. I’m just not feeling it right now. I love the job, I love it here. I love working at this company, but I’m just not feeling engaged. Can we just look at job responsibilities and figure some things out? There’s maybe some things that we can introduce into the thing or things we can take away. And usually if you’re a Fortune 500 company, there’s enough people around that things could be delegated, moved around, shifted even, maybe move you to a different department, that sort of thing.
But I think just having that conversation. A lot of us are afraid to have that conversation because we think, oh, they’re going to think I don’t like working here, and they’re going to gimme a bad review. So, we tend to just wait till we hit our tipping point and then we leave and then the manager goes like, what? I didn’t even know there was a problem. I would’ve for sure helped them out. And maybe that’s the manager’s fault for not knowing, but I think we assume that people know things that they don’t. I would say my advice is have that conversation with whether your manager or somebody that you trust in the organization that you can just go to. Just to go to say confidentially, I’m just not feeling it, but I wanna feel it. What do you think is my next best step here?
What can managers do to ensure workers are feeling happy and engaged?
The manager goes to the team without calling anybody out and just saying, hey guys, I just want to make sure that we’re all fully engaged. We’re going to set up one-on-ones. This isn’t a regular review. I’m not going to be judging your productivity. I just want to hear how you doing.
Oh, to work for a manager like this, that would be huge. And as a manager, just the fact that I have now an opportunity to respond to your unhappiness versus just you leaving and me never having a chance… that should be open and welcoming.
And this whole idea of work-life balance – at a Fortune 500 company, we tell our employees, we want you to have balance. And what we really mean by that is we don’t really want you working more than 50 or 60 hours a week. We want you to have balance with your life. But what we don’t mean by that is we want your job to be really engaging and enjoyable for you.
I don’t wanna work-life balance where I’m like on a seesaw where, when I’m at work, I’m miserable and when I’m at home, I’m happy. I think what we take away from that is work-life balance means it’s okay to be miserable in your job as long as you’re not there too many hours. I feel like the day of working in the coal mine is over for a lot of us. Some people are still sort of trapped in that, but for most of us in the industrialized world, we don’t have to put up with that crap. We can figure out a way to actually integrate some happiness into our job and not be miserable from nine to five.
What does remote work-life balance look like?
To be able to say, oh, I’m going to take an extended lunch break without asking for permission or whatever, knowing that the job’s getting done. Because now you’re working the job, not the hours. You just got to make sure everything gets done. So some weeks that could be 30 hours, some weeks it could be 60, just get the job done. And so I think that has to be part of the message. But the whole trust and respect thing is huge. If you don’t trust somebody to work remotely and get the job done, are they the right person to even have on your team? If I feel like I’ve got a micromanage and make sure I know when they logged in and all that kind of stuff … as a manager, I don’t want to do that. It’s gross.
One of the things that I discovered when I started working for myself is my natural rhythm of when I’m most productive. I realized my natural rhythm may be from 8:00 PM to one in the morning. I just get so much done then. In the morning when I can sleep in a bit and get up and not be immediately working, where I can just kind of pace myself into the day, I’m so much more productive.
So even those little things like that, having that flexibility of work time actually could result in you being more productive because you start to do your natural rhythms. You eat at 10:30 if that’s when your body wants food.
On a different note, can you tell us more about your passion for poker and winning tournaments?
I’d never played poker till about 10 years ago or so. I had two buddies and we had 10 teenagers between the three of us. I used to go fishing with my three kids, and they lost interest in that and I was trying to figure like, how can we engage? And one of them said, has anybody ever played poker? And so we actually started playing. It’d be 13 of us sitting around the table playing poker for nothing. But a few of us just fell in love with the game Texas Hold’em. In 2016, I started a podcast called Rec Poker because this is how I like to learn things. The idea was to talk to people and learn the game together in a sense of community, and it just took off. I played a lot of the local weekly tournaments in the area and so I’ve got 30+ tournament wins under my belt, which is pretty cool. And a couple of those are pretty big chunky wins.
I’ve been to the World Series of Poker and I played the main event one time, but then, you know, it’s like a six week long deal. It’s camp for poker players. You walk down the hallways and you see everybody, all these famous people and you go watch them play. So you just go sit down and watch the $50,000 tournament with Hellmuth, Negreanu and Maria Ho and all these, people that poker players know well.
I talk a lot about what poker’s taught me about life and business because for any given card, any given hand, any given tournament, it’s mostly luck. I mean, not mostly, but it’s a lot of luck. But over the course of your career, over the course of 20 tournaments or a hundred tournaments, the skill edge really shows itself there. That’s where I come back to that being intentional about decision making. If you continue to make the best decisions, you will have a leg up on your competition. It’ll give you the best opportunities to succeed. So I think that it’s decisions, it’s skill, and it’s luck.
Before we wrap up, if you could take all of your life experiences, turn around and give somebody one piece of advice from those experiences, what would it be?
Know yourself. I wish I’d figured that out years and years ago, but just really be super clear on who you are, not what you think you should be, and not what you think other people expect of you, but just clearly, authentically to the core, who am I? And then make intentional decisions around that. I think that’s the hardest thing is to really know ourselves or what we want out of our business for entrepreneurs. On top of that, have the confidence to say, I know myself now and I want this. Truly understanding who you are is the best gift you can give yourself.
If people want to get in contact with you, learn more about what you do and how you help small, small businesses (small, small businesses being the name of your company), how can they get in contact with you?
Social media wise, I’m the most active on LinkedIn. I actually do something called Steve’s Daily Stool, which is an intentional play on words, but it’s just a little video I put out there every weekday on LinkedIn. And then just two websites smallsmallbusiness.com for the entrepreneurs and stevefredlund.com which is more geared toward my speaking.
Steve, I appreciate your time. You’ve been a wealth of knowledge. Thank you so much.